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	<title>Comments on: Jordanian Jail Clashes!</title>
	<link>http://www.black-iris.com/2006/02/28/jordanian-jail-clashes/</link>
	<description>A Jordanian Blog</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Luciano</title>
		<link>http://www.black-iris.com/2006/02/28/jordanian-jail-clashes/#comment-3144</link>
		<dc:creator>Luciano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:45:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.black-iris.com/2006/02/28/jordanian-jail-clashes/#comment-3144</guid>
		<description>A question is raised: Do you think that murderers and terrorists are political prisoners? 

This poses three further questions:
1.- What's the definition of murderer?
2.- What's the definition of terrorist?
3.- What's the definition of political prisoner? 

Before you think this is sofistry, consider that every one of these three questions has evolved through time, and in some respects, it's a matter of judgement (political, ethical, otherwise). Murder is a loaded word. If I kill in self-defense, for instance, I may not be regarded a murderer, but I've killed someone. If we take a biased, but relevant, source of ethical judgement, one of the Ten commandements says "You shall not kill" -- and not "You shall not murder". Typically, every government has always disregarded it, when it comes to a war. Soldiers are specifically trained to kill other human beings, whatever their rationale.
The German army in World War II had a sentence "Gott mit uns" written all over their garments. (That means "God is with us"). But most armies have an equivalent notion inscribed in their mind, whatever their definition of "god" might be -- including secular armies (like the Soviet Red army), which did it for the good of the working class, or the Soviet state, or whatever.
Terrorism is nowadays regarded as bad. However, during WWII, the OFFICIAL policy of both the British and US governments was that their massive bombardements over Germany and Japan and Italy were intended to terrorize the populace, to undermine support for their own governments.
And finally the idea that if someone is declared a political prisoner, this is immediately some kind of endorsement for their views/actions, is simply preposterous.
What it means it that the main reason for their being jailed is the political views they support. Most governments regard the advocacy of certain ideas as a criminal act. And in many cases this is specifically supported by legislation to that effect. Whether or not they also did something which can be otherwise regarded as "criminal" is a moot point. 
For example, throughout history, the advocacy of certain ideas has been regarded as a criminal act in and of itself -- how many people have been put on a cross or burned to the stake, or simply jailed because of their support for "non-conformist" viewpoints?
Where they political prisoners? Does it mean that those who went against them were wrong?
I'd answer "mostly, yes" to both questions. But that's not to say, that it's ok to advocate every idea, and that any form of suppression of those who argue a particular idea is always wrong and anti-democratic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A question is raised: Do you think that murderers and terrorists are political prisoners? </p>
<p>This poses three further questions:<br />
1.- What&#8217;s the definition of murderer?<br />
2.- What&#8217;s the definition of terrorist?<br />
3.- What&#8217;s the definition of political prisoner? </p>
<p>Before you think this is sofistry, consider that every one of these three questions has evolved through time, and in some respects, it&#8217;s a matter of judgement (political, ethical, otherwise). Murder is a loaded word. If I kill in self-defense, for instance, I may not be regarded a murderer, but I&#8217;ve killed someone. If we take a biased, but relevant, source of ethical judgement, one of the Ten commandements says &#8220;You shall not kill&#8221; &#8212; and not &#8220;You shall not murder&#8221;. Typically, every government has always disregarded it, when it comes to a war. Soldiers are specifically trained to kill other human beings, whatever their rationale.<br />
The German army in World War II had a sentence &#8220;Gott mit uns&#8221; written all over their garments. (That means &#8220;God is with us&#8221;). But most armies have an equivalent notion inscribed in their mind, whatever their definition of &#8220;god&#8221; might be &#8212; including secular armies (like the Soviet Red army), which did it for the good of the working class, or the Soviet state, or whatever.<br />
Terrorism is nowadays regarded as bad. However, during WWII, the OFFICIAL policy of both the British and US governments was that their massive bombardements over Germany and Japan and Italy were intended to terrorize the populace, to undermine support for their own governments.<br />
And finally the idea that if someone is declared a political prisoner, this is immediately some kind of endorsement for their views/actions, is simply preposterous.<br />
What it means it that the main reason for their being jailed is the political views they support. Most governments regard the advocacy of certain ideas as a criminal act. And in many cases this is specifically supported by legislation to that effect. Whether or not they also did something which can be otherwise regarded as &#8220;criminal&#8221; is a moot point.<br />
For example, throughout history, the advocacy of certain ideas has been regarded as a criminal act in and of itself &#8212; how many people have been put on a cross or burned to the stake, or simply jailed because of their support for &#8220;non-conformist&#8221; viewpoints?<br />
Where they political prisoners? Does it mean that those who went against them were wrong?<br />
I&#8217;d answer &#8220;mostly, yes&#8221; to both questions. But that&#8217;s not to say, that it&#8217;s ok to advocate every idea, and that any form of suppression of those who argue a particular idea is always wrong and anti-democratic.</p>
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		<title>By: Jordan Stops an Al-Qaeda Attack! at The Black Iris of Jordan</title>
		<link>http://www.black-iris.com/2006/02/28/jordanian-jail-clashes/#comment-2409</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan Stops an Al-Qaeda Attack! at The Black Iris of Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 19:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.black-iris.com/2006/02/28/jordanian-jail-clashes/#comment-2409</guid>
		<description>[...] Blog Policy           &#171; Jordanian Jail Clashes! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Blog Policy           &laquo; Jordanian Jail Clashes! [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: lars</title>
		<link>http://www.black-iris.com/2006/02/28/jordanian-jail-clashes/#comment-2408</link>
		<dc:creator>lars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.black-iris.com/2006/02/28/jordanian-jail-clashes/#comment-2408</guid>
		<description>thanks for this, linked the stuff on my page. Whatever their crimes, people should have fair trials, which are not exactly "all over the place" in Jordan... Nice blog btw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for this, linked the stuff on my page. Whatever their crimes, people should have fair trials, which are not exactly &#8220;all over the place&#8221; in Jordan&#8230; Nice blog btw.</p>
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		<title>By: moi</title>
		<link>http://www.black-iris.com/2006/02/28/jordanian-jail-clashes/#comment-2406</link>
		<dc:creator>moi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.black-iris.com/2006/02/28/jordanian-jail-clashes/#comment-2406</guid>
		<description>BBC says the hostages have been released : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4761826.stm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BBC says the hostages have been released : <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4761826.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4761826.stm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nas</title>
		<link>http://www.black-iris.com/2006/02/28/jordanian-jail-clashes/#comment-2405</link>
		<dc:creator>Nas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 05:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.black-iris.com/2006/02/28/jordanian-jail-clashes/#comment-2405</guid>
		<description>Big K, "Do you think that murderers and terrorists are political prisoners?" I never said that they were. There are many prisoners in prison for different reasons. While we might be able to say that most have done something to be there, we cannot ignore the fact that many were never tried.

as for the spontaniety, yes it does suggest coordination, whether that means prisoner abuse isnt for sure. it might suggest planning between islamist prisoners who seem to be at the center of this thing at this point in time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Big K, &#8220;Do you think that murderers and terrorists are political prisoners?&#8221; I never said that they were. There are many prisoners in prison for different reasons. While we might be able to say that most have done something to be there, we cannot ignore the fact that many were never tried.</p>
<p>as for the spontaniety, yes it does suggest coordination, whether that means prisoner abuse isnt for sure. it might suggest planning between islamist prisoners who seem to be at the center of this thing at this point in time.</p>
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		<title>By: Big K</title>
		<link>http://www.black-iris.com/2006/02/28/jordanian-jail-clashes/#comment-2404</link>
		<dc:creator>Big K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 04:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.black-iris.com/2006/02/28/jordanian-jail-clashes/#comment-2404</guid>
		<description>Nas: Do you think that murderers and terrorists are political prisoners?  They definately are not.  Moreover, if these events happened in more than one place, then one should conclude that they were coordinated and not spontaneous.  If this conclusion is correct, I would hesitate to conclude that it has to do with prisoner abuse, as you suggest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nas: Do you think that murderers and terrorists are political prisoners?  They definately are not.  Moreover, if these events happened in more than one place, then one should conclude that they were coordinated and not spontaneous.  If this conclusion is correct, I would hesitate to conclude that it has to do with prisoner abuse, as you suggest.</p>
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