Comments on: The Will Of The People http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/ A Jordanian Blog Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:21:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: ulurdunialhurr http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52098 ulurdunialhurr Wed, 28 Mar 2007 07:02:21 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52098 <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEEdcDWFr_0&mode=related&search=" rel="nofollow">Parenti Part 6</a> Parenti Part 6

]]> By: ulurdunialhurr http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52095 ulurdunialhurr Wed, 28 Mar 2007 06:51:56 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52095 <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdiPnvYLvWM&mode=related&search=" rel="nofollow">More of Parenti</a> More of Parenti

]]> By: ulurdunialhurr http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52093 ulurdunialhurr Wed, 28 Mar 2007 06:44:37 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52093 <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUWMeGSqtkA&mode=related&search=" rel="nofollow"> What Happens after Capitalism?</a> What Happens after Capitalism?

]]> By: ulurdunialhurr http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52092 ulurdunialhurr Wed, 28 Mar 2007 06:39:19 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52092 <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOCLGlIbl0I&mode=related&search=" rel="nofollow">The Economy of Rights (1997</a> The Economy of Rights (1997

]]> By: ulurdunialhurr http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52086 ulurdunialhurr Wed, 28 Mar 2007 06:29:01 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52086 <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir3WKY4pJE4&mode=related&search=" rel="nofollow">Parenti Part 5,</a> Parenti Part 5,

]]> By: ulurdunialhurr http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52084 ulurdunialhurr Wed, 28 Mar 2007 06:20:42 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52084 Here is the second video<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdiPnvYLvWM&mode=related&search=" rel="nofollow">just click and watch</a> Here is the second videojust click and watch

]]> By: ulurdunialhurr http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52077 ulurdunialhurr Wed, 28 Mar 2007 06:09:52 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52077 <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a9VnxZEHGg" rel="nofollow">Here a guy who knows about democracy,one of the best there is.</a> Here a guy who knows about democracy,one of the best there is.

]]> By: ordune http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52015 ordune Tue, 27 Mar 2007 23:17:06 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52015 mohanned. Why you keep embarrassing you,r self,stop. mohanned.
Why you keep embarrassing you,r self,stop.

]]> By: Craig http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52000 Craig Tue, 27 Mar 2007 22:00:43 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-52000 <i>Craig, why would you an israeli pose as an american?</i> Why not just call me a jew and be done with it, bigot? For your information I'm 100% anglo-saxon and my family has been in the United States since the 17th century, but don't let that bother your conspiracy theories, dude. Craig, why would you an israeli pose as an american?

Why not just call me a jew and be done with it, bigot? For your information I’m 100% anglo-saxon and my family has been in the United States since the 17th century, but don’t let that bother your conspiracy theories, dude.

]]> By: rafjan http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51989 rafjan Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:11:01 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51989 Muhannad, aka ababneh, aka arbiat: blowing smoke upon retreat is a wise and standard military maneuver. Muhannad, aka ababneh, aka arbiat: blowing smoke upon retreat is a wise and standard military maneuver.

]]> By: Mohanned http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51980 Mohanned Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:45:23 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51980 Jaarr, I tried to be rational but you seem to be unable to read and understand, My suggestion to you is rallying 500 people behind you and "transform us" to your desire, good day. Debate is Over. Jaarr,
I tried to be rational but you seem to be unable to read and understand, My suggestion to you is rallying 500 people behind you and “transform us” to your desire, good day.
Debate is Over.

]]> By: Jaarr http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51979 Jaarr Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:33:45 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51979 Craig, why would you an israeli pose as an american? Craig, why would you an israeli pose as an american?

]]> By: Jaarr http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51978 Jaarr Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:29:09 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51978 CRAIG, thank you for proving the point to the readers. you are a bona fide member of the american mob. MUHANNAD, you are a conspiracy theorist. admit it. you and the Americans. they killed tens of thousands of arabs based on some absurd WMD and Qaeda fabrication. And here you are trying so hard to warn us of an Islamist conspiracy to destroy Jordan. Fact is what unites you (pro despots) and the americans is nothing but conspiracy theories. the reality in Lebanon, Palestine, Turkey, Malysia, and other "Islamic" countries show that the Islamists seem to be more moderate and far more rational and principled than those whose praise you sing. heck when i compare nasrallah or haniyya to bush or olmert or one of your despots i am amazed at how those who are suppose to be radicals are rational, and how those who are suppose to be secular are paranoid and sectarian in their language. remember who is beating the drums of sectarianism and mobilizing the dark forced of sectarianism with charges of Shiite threat and Shiite evil and Hamas threat. Bottom line, people who live in glass houses... you my friend have nothing to offer us but Nas's bad dreams. When in Palestine, lebaonn, and turkey, and even Iran we see the opposite. sorry, but your scaremongering may have worked a decade ago, but not today. CRAIG, thank you for proving the point to the readers. you are a bona fide member of the american mob.

MUHANNAD, you are a conspiracy theorist. admit it. you and the Americans. they killed tens of thousands of arabs based on some absurd WMD and Qaeda fabrication. And here you are trying so hard to warn us of an Islamist conspiracy to destroy Jordan. Fact is what unites you (pro despots) and the americans is nothing but conspiracy theories. the reality in Lebanon, Palestine, Turkey, Malysia, and other “Islamic” countries show that the Islamists seem to be more moderate and far more rational and principled than those whose praise you sing. heck when i compare nasrallah or haniyya to bush or olmert or one of your despots i am amazed at how those who are suppose to be radicals are rational, and how those who are suppose to be secular are paranoid and sectarian in their language. remember who is beating the drums of sectarianism and mobilizing the dark forced of sectarianism with charges of Shiite threat and Shiite evil and Hamas threat.

Bottom line, people who live in glass houses… you my friend have nothing to offer us but Nas’s bad dreams. When in Palestine, lebaonn, and turkey, and even Iran we see the opposite. sorry, but your scaremongering may have worked a decade ago, but not today.

]]> By: Mohanned http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51969 Mohanned Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:59:10 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51969 It is not funny ritt, This is how it is, I don't know about you, but the conspiracy theory time has gone long time ago for me, my post that you commented on was a debate between me an ruff rider, so keep it in the terms of this debate. The conspiracy theory that you advocate for is existant in 99% of the arab and muslim population, and that is due to our educational system that limits thinking to what we are told to think about. Is it because the west is smarter, my answer is no, it is because we are stupid and limit our thinking to fighting the west and fighting with each other, if we as arabs and muslims can focus some of our energy on education and scientific research instead of armies and fear we will achieve alot. I can blame the system for our current situation but I won't because it is our fault not theirs and until we get to the point where our population is educated and logical we will achieve miracles, we have to start changing menatalities using education, and if we succeed it will take us along time until everyone with the old mentality either dies(natural causes) or change their way of thinking. do you agree with this analysis? Thanks for your reply, I like this debate:) It is not funny ritt, This is how it is, I don’t know about you, but the conspiracy theory time has gone long time ago for me, my post that you commented on was a debate between me an ruff rider, so keep it in the terms of this debate.
The conspiracy theory that you advocate for is existant in 99% of the arab and muslim population, and that is due to our educational system that limits thinking to what we are told to think about. Is it because the west is smarter, my answer is no, it is because we are stupid and limit our thinking to fighting the west and fighting with each other, if we as arabs and muslims can focus some of our energy on education and scientific research instead of armies and fear we will achieve alot. I can blame the system for our current situation but I won’t because it is our fault not theirs and until we get to the point where our population is educated and logical we will achieve miracles, we have to start changing menatalities using education, and if we succeed it will take us along time until everyone with the old mentality either dies(natural causes) or change their way of thinking. do you agree with this analysis?
Thanks for your reply, I like this debate:)

]]> By: Craig http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51966 Craig Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:54:27 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51966 <i>Craig your “responsible” democracy killed tens of thousands of innocent Arabs in Iraq</i> And how many of those killed in Iraq supported Al Qaeda, and celebrated the 9/11 attacks, when they occurred, Ritt? And considering the most likely answer to that question, just how INNOCENT were they? I guarantee you, after seeing Palestinians dancing in the streets on Spetember 11th, 2001 if the US *really* had the mob rule you suggest, the ICBMs would have started impacting arab cities on that day. The US response *has been* responsible. Whether you want to admit or not. You think arabs are the only ones capable of feeling murderous rage? You're wrong. Craig your “responsible” democracy killed tens of thousands of innocent Arabs in Iraq

And how many of those killed in Iraq supported Al Qaeda, and celebrated the 9/11 attacks, when they occurred, Ritt? And considering the most likely answer to that question, just how INNOCENT were they?

I guarantee you, after seeing Palestinians dancing in the streets on Spetember 11th, 2001 if the US *really* had the mob rule you suggest, the ICBMs would have started impacting arab cities on that day.

The US response *has been* responsible. Whether you want to admit or not. You think arabs are the only ones capable of feeling murderous rage? You’re wrong.

]]> By: Ritt http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51964 Ritt Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:42:38 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51964 Mohannad, funny how you phrase the transition to democracy in apocalyptic terms. this is how despots and their minions always like to position dictatorial repression, as some sort of an ingenious long term transition plan (1000 years) to save us and the west from chaos, when in reality it's despots who are the ones who fuel violence with their runaway corruption and systematic destruction of the national wealth. why not one arab country, despite oil and natural resources, can even come close to brazil, tiwan, s.korea, singapore, or any of the rising Asian or east European economies? i am sure there are regime minions who are ready with their rationalizations. so lets hear it. Mohannad, funny how you phrase the transition to democracy in apocalyptic terms. this is how despots and their minions always like to position dictatorial repression, as some sort of an ingenious long term transition plan (1000 years) to save us and the west from chaos, when in reality it’s despots who are the ones who fuel violence with their runaway corruption and systematic destruction of the national wealth. why not one arab country, despite oil and natural resources, can even come close to brazil, tiwan, s.korea, singapore, or any of the rising Asian or east European economies? i am sure there are regime minions who are ready with their rationalizations. so lets hear it.

]]> By: Ritt http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51960 Ritt Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:34:59 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51960 Craig your "responsible" democracy killed tens of thousands of innocent Arabs in Iraq based on some bogus conspiracy theory of WMD and Alqeda ties that were proven, and later admitted, to be total fabrications. you and your democracy. YOU HAVE NOTHING BUT MOB RULE YOU Craig your “responsible” democracy killed tens of thousands of innocent Arabs in Iraq based on some bogus conspiracy theory of WMD and Alqeda ties that were proven, and later admitted, to be total fabrications. you and your democracy. YOU HAVE NOTHING BUT MOB RULE YOU

]]> By: Craig http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51940 Craig Tue, 27 Mar 2007 18:38:39 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51940 What you are talking about is not "majority rule" - it's mob rule. We have majority rule in the US, but not mob rule. In representative government, elected officials are expected to behave responsibly, and not implement the whim of the people just because it's what they think they want. If we had "majority rule" in the US as you describe it, Jordan and most of the rest of the Arab world would have been vaporized in September 2001. What you are talking about is not “majority rule” - it’s mob rule. We have majority rule in the US, but not mob rule. In representative government, elected officials are expected to behave responsibly, and not implement the whim of the people just because it’s what they think they want. If we had “majority rule” in the US as you describe it, Jordan and most of the rest of the Arab world would have been vaporized in September 2001.

]]> By: Mohanned http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51923 Mohanned Tue, 27 Mar 2007 17:25:19 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51923 Ruff, I agree with 90% of what you say, I am not impying that democracy caused what happened between hamas and fateh, It was an example to show hor arab heads work, you can't deny that this who we are, the 70's black spetember was a result of democracy, the PLO was given 100% freedom to act on the jordanian soil and look what happened. My question to you: Do you suggest that we have to go through a pahse of killing and destruction in jordan to achive democracy? I don't think that you would like to see that. And yes our parents have more tolerance, you are 100% right, do you think I am happy about what is happening in jordan? Corruption, salvery, racism, inflation, poverty, education..My whole point, build a better jordan we need to focus on jordan and only jordan, If people from differen origins agree on that point and make a decision wether they want to become a 100% jordnaian or keep fighting for their agendas( I am not suggesting that we become seperated from arab causes, but I only want for people to put jordans interests first even if it doesn't make our "brothers" happy, we have to do it to keep jordan alive). A strong jordan is better for palastine, right? And by Jordan I mean country and people. Good luck for us ruff rider, and it is going to be a ruff ride:) Ruff,
I agree with 90% of what you say, I am not impying that democracy caused what happened between hamas and fateh, It was an example to show hor arab heads work, you can’t deny that this who we are, the 70’s black spetember was a result of democracy, the PLO was given 100% freedom to act on the jordanian soil and look what happened.
My question to you: Do you suggest that we have to go through a pahse of killing and destruction in jordan to achive democracy? I don’t think that you would like to see that. And yes our parents have more tolerance, you are 100% right, do you think I am happy about what is happening in jordan? Corruption, salvery, racism, inflation, poverty, education..My whole point, build a better jordan we need to focus on jordan and only jordan, If people from differen origins agree on that point and make a decision wether they want to become a 100% jordnaian or keep fighting for their agendas( I am not suggesting that we become seperated from arab causes, but I only want for people to put jordans interests first even if it doesn’t make our “brothers” happy, we have to do it to keep jordan alive). A strong jordan is better for palastine, right?
And by Jordan I mean country and people. Good luck for us ruff rider, and it is going to be a ruff ride:)

]]> By: Ruff_Rider http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51919 Ruff_Rider Tue, 27 Mar 2007 17:02:15 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51919 Mohannad, its a good comparison, Hamas and Fatah did not in fact fight at an ideological level, what happened is fake, its induced, certain elements have recived foreign aid ( this is not disputed and it can be corroborated through news articles and reports) External forces aided and abbeted this chokehold on Palestinian politics, but only after the table was set, anarchy, and lawlessnes were fostered, if you look through history everytime governance is eclipsed, chaos and anarchy rules, take a look at Baghdad in 2003 right after the fall of the Saddam governemnt, and you can also look back at history, it happened countless times. So to say that what is happening between Fatah and Hamas is due to democracy is not accurate. So my main point is, there is a huge lack of trust right now in Jordan, the Loyal Jordanian, the treaterous Palestinain, the Egyptian builder, the slave labor in the free zones, and the Iraqi tycoon who is skewing the prices, this is wrong, we are witnessng an increaed segregation between the different elements of Jordanian society and we need to be careful and work on stpping it. it serves no one well, i feel that our parents, the ones who witnessed the events of 70 etc are more tolerant than todays generation, just do the survey and see for yourself...why is that? what needs to be done, I think this sis the only pre-requisit for Jordan to be ready for democracy, trust and respect..... Mohannad, its a good comparison, Hamas and Fatah did not in fact fight at an ideological level, what happened is fake, its induced, certain elements have recived foreign aid ( this is not disputed and it can be corroborated through news articles and reports) External forces aided and abbeted this chokehold on Palestinian politics, but only after the table was set, anarchy, and lawlessnes were fostered, if you look through history everytime governance is eclipsed, chaos and anarchy rules, take a look at Baghdad in 2003 right after the fall of the Saddam governemnt, and you can also look back at history, it happened countless times. So to say that what is happening between Fatah and Hamas is due to democracy is not accurate. So my main point is, there is a huge lack of trust right now in Jordan, the Loyal Jordanian, the treaterous Palestinain, the Egyptian builder, the slave labor in the free zones, and the Iraqi tycoon who is skewing the prices, this is wrong, we are witnessng an increaed segregation between the different elements of Jordanian society and we need to be careful and work on stpping it. it serves no one well, i feel that our parents, the ones who witnessed the events of 70 etc are more tolerant than todays generation, just do the survey and see for yourself…why is that? what needs to be done, I think this sis the only pre-requisit for Jordan to be ready for democracy, trust and respect…..

]]> By: Mohanned http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51901 Mohanned Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:21:53 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51901 Ruff, The thing is, I agree with you about your firstomment, that democracy is dirty and fighting and all of that..But the thing is that our mentality as arabs doesn't stop after the fist fight..We will have killing and revenge, our culture is different brother, a close example would be hamas and fateh..Palastenians are the closest to our mentality and way of life and look what happened.. Do you agree? Another thing, you all seem to mess the definition of democracy: Democracy is the rule of people, not the rule of the majority..Democracy is measured not by the majority leading it is measured by the rights given to the people specially minorities.. God bless jordan.. Nas I feel what you are going through..You talk about something and because of your family name they think you are mo7a'abart and they start judging and making assumptions and not only that they believe their assumptions are right, God bless jordan O allah ywafgak.. Ruff,
The thing is, I agree with you about your firstomment, that democracy is dirty and fighting and all of that..But the thing is that our mentality as arabs doesn’t stop after the fist fight..We will have killing and revenge, our culture is different brother, a close example would be hamas and fateh..Palastenians are the closest to our mentality and way of life and look what happened..
Do you agree?
Another thing, you all seem to mess the definition of democracy:
Democracy is the rule of people, not the rule of the majority..Democracy is measured not by the majority leading it is measured by the rights given to the people specially minorities..
God bless jordan.. Nas I feel what you are going through..You talk about something and because of your family name they think you are mo7a’abart and they start judging and making assumptions and not only that they believe their assumptions are right, God bless jordan O allah ywafgak..

]]> By: Nas http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51891 Nas Tue, 27 Mar 2007 14:14:34 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51891 maraga: my sensitive side? oh dear. judging by your previous reply, i think you're the one who's take my day dream as a critical topic. i was just pointing that out for you maraga: my sensitive side? oh dear.

judging by your previous reply, i think you’re the one who’s take my day dream as a critical topic.

i was just pointing that out for you

]]> By: Maraga http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51871 Maraga Tue, 27 Mar 2007 12:13:16 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51871 you keep showing your sensitive side. but why do you consider one of your bad dreams to be a critical topic. you keep showing your sensitive side. but why do you consider one of your bad dreams to be a critical topic.

]]> By: Nas http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51870 Nas Tue, 27 Mar 2007 12:10:48 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51870 sigh, its sad to see that such a critical topic is reduced to "oh you silly rich people and your safeway world" where your voice about your country will only count if you're poor and uneducated. oh well maybe in another generation or three. sigh, its sad to see that such a critical topic is reduced to “oh you silly rich people and your safeway world”

where your voice about your country will only count if you’re poor and uneducated.

oh well

maybe in another generation

or three.

]]> By: Maraga http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51867 Maraga Tue, 27 Mar 2007 11:48:34 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51867 hanna, funny how jordan's upper economic class defines stability and security in physical terms when jordan's majority lower economic classes define it in basic needs such as health, education, housing. to a Jordanians poor, he is living the violence and insecurity of poverty EVERY DAY. his health is constantly threatened with killer illnesses (cancer, heart attacks) due to bad nutrition and hazardous substances (unchecked dumping of expired foods and medications in jordan's low-income food markets). But you and other rich jordanians can waltz into Cozmos or Safeway or order your foods and medicines from more secure sources. A poor jordanian has to work dangerous and often dead end jobs that will bring a life-long of insecurity and uncertainty, enough to fry his nerves. you have a college scholarship and high-paying white collar job that your tribal connections got you a poor jordanian will send his kids to a run-down and poorly funded public school and watch his kids quality of education decline and his future work prospects dim, and there is not a darn thing he can do about it. while you will send your kids to private schools since you can afford it. a poor jordanian will die younger due to poor health care since he is neither insured nor can afford to go to good hospitals. instead, he will have to frequent some of the worst hospitals in the arab world where a patient's chances for recovery and survival will decrease markedly soon as he enters the hospital. it's this disparity of political outlooks between jordan's minority rich and jordan's majority poor that will continue to buildup until it explodes. you see safety and security in the status quo, they see hardship, sickness, joblessness, and hear you and other rich Jordanians berate them for not taking on jobs you will not even dare consider. so it's not uncivil discussions that will threaten democracy, it's not the islamists (who seem to care more than anyone else) or the iranians, but it's the grotesque lack of civility which plagues jordan's rich classes. What makes it all perverse is that so many of jordan's regime millionaires made a great living begging for money from the West and Gulf in the name of Jordan's poor. bottom line, unless we evolve our definition of security and stability to encompass that of jordan's poor and their definition of security and stability, we are nothing but nomads with western cloths. So for those of you who thoughtlessly and selfishly praise the regime's "security & stability" maybe you should go for a drive around Jordan's vast backyard of poverty and misery, add to it the surge in crimes and throw in the hotel terror attacks and ask yourself what security? hanna, funny how jordan’s upper economic class defines stability and security in physical terms when jordan’s majority lower economic classes define it in basic needs such as health, education, housing.

to a Jordanians poor, he is living the violence and insecurity of poverty EVERY DAY. his health is constantly threatened with killer illnesses (cancer, heart attacks) due to bad nutrition and hazardous substances (unchecked dumping of expired foods and medications in jordan’s low-income food markets). But you and other rich jordanians can waltz into Cozmos or Safeway or order your foods and medicines from more secure sources.

A poor jordanian has to work dangerous and often dead end jobs that will bring a life-long of insecurity and uncertainty, enough to fry his nerves. you have a college scholarship and high-paying white collar job that your tribal connections got you

a poor jordanian will send his kids to a run-down and poorly funded public school and watch his kids quality of education decline and his future work prospects dim, and there is not a darn thing he can do about it. while you will send your kids to private schools since you can afford it.

a poor jordanian will die younger due to poor health care since he is neither insured nor can afford to go to good hospitals. instead, he will have to frequent some of the worst hospitals in the arab world where a patient’s chances for recovery and survival will decrease markedly soon as he enters the hospital.

it’s this disparity of political outlooks between jordan’s minority rich and jordan’s majority poor that will continue to buildup until it explodes. you see safety and security in the status quo, they see hardship, sickness, joblessness, and hear you and other rich Jordanians berate them for not taking on jobs you will not even dare consider.

so it’s not uncivil discussions that will threaten democracy, it’s not the islamists (who seem to care more than anyone else) or the iranians, but it’s the grotesque lack of civility which plagues jordan’s rich classes. What makes it all perverse is that so many of jordan’s regime millionaires made a great living begging for money from the West and Gulf in the name of Jordan’s poor.

bottom line, unless we evolve our definition of security and stability to encompass that of jordan’s poor and their definition of security and stability, we are nothing but nomads with western cloths. So for those of you who thoughtlessly and selfishly praise the regime’s “security & stability” maybe you should go for a drive around Jordan’s vast backyard of poverty and misery, add to it the surge in crimes and throw in the hotel terror attacks and ask yourself what security?

]]> By: Ruff_Rider http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51830 Ruff_Rider Tue, 27 Mar 2007 07:53:40 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51830 before anyone jumps at my throat and accuses me of being aggressive and un-democratic, I just wanted to clarify that my previous comments were not directed at anyone in particular, with all due respect to everyone here, its just my humble opinion before anyone jumps at my throat and accuses me of being aggressive and un-democratic, I just wanted to clarify that my previous comments were not directed at anyone in particular, with all due respect to everyone here, its just my humble opinion

]]> By: Hanna http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51819 Hanna Tue, 27 Mar 2007 06:39:38 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51819 I guess that to sum the whole thing up, and in my opinion, I prefer the status quo -as bad as it is now- than an overnight turn such as the one you imagined in your daydream Nas. Half-plus-one democracy would be a disaster if introduced the way you imagined it. Yet, a part of me thinks that maybe we are a people that are not at all tailored for democracy. Between the "mosques [that] would be able to freely spew out anti-zionist-western-christian-jewish speeches" and their would-be followers and the "few isolated rich Jordanians who have the time to blog and know how to write English" (and please, I don't by any means accept or agree with these mean over generalizations).. I think I might have got off the point a bit with my long sentences but bare with me... With these two groups -if for the sake of conversation I want to classify Jordanians into these two groups- having totally conflicting aspirations and views of a future Jordan, maybe it is better to leave it the way it is up till the day where a slowly introduced change MIGHT take place. I know I might be contradicting myself in this comment but I tried to write it down in each and every way I thought about it :D I guess that to sum the whole thing up, and in my opinion, I prefer the status quo -as bad as it is now- than an overnight turn such as the one you imagined in your daydream Nas. Half-plus-one democracy would be a disaster if introduced the way you imagined it.

Yet, a part of me thinks that maybe we are a people that are not at all tailored for democracy. Between the “mosques [that] would be able to freely spew out anti-zionist-western-christian-jewish speeches” and their would-be followers and the “few isolated rich Jordanians who have the time to blog and know how to write English” (and please, I don’t by any means accept or agree with these mean over generalizations).. I think I might have got off the point a bit with my long sentences but bare with me… With these two groups -if for the sake of conversation I want to classify Jordanians into these two groups- having totally conflicting aspirations and views of a future Jordan, maybe it is better to leave it the way it is up till the day where a slowly introduced change MIGHT take place.

I know I might be contradicting myself in this comment but I tried to write it down in each and every way I thought about it :D

]]> By: Ruff_Rider http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51810 Ruff_Rider Tue, 27 Mar 2007 05:40:44 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51810 I cant stop laughing when I hear this argument: "Are we ready for democracy? No, because we are tribal idiots who cant stop attacking the opposite view" well my friends, I have news for you, if this is the critera you have for determing wether you are ready for democracy or not, you will never experience democracy, take a look at american politics, there is nothing more vicious than the eternal democrat-republican struggle, someone here compared us with Taiwan, havent you ever seen the fistfights and catfights in the Taiwanese Parliament? Politics is dirty, if you want to stay clean then stay away, if you want to induce change then start with a lousy tribal, religious or whatever democracy, at least there would be a venue for change, btw , I despise ALL religions, so i dont have any hidden agendas here. See the beauty of democracy is that majority rules, so if the majority of your people have a desire, an aspiration then why are you resisting the chnage, on the other hand if you think that you are better than most of your people, or if the issue of loyalty is dropped, and if the status quo suits you best, then, I would understand your desire to keep this status quo, more power to you, but please spare us the hypocricy of talking about democracy, its not something that you aspire for. Or even better solve your problem, make sure that you are in a desirable democracy, isnt this what israel is doing with its arab population? See, democracy is a double edged sword, careful what you wish for. I cant stop laughing when I hear this argument: “Are we ready for democracy? No, because we are tribal idiots who cant stop attacking the opposite view” well my friends, I have news for you, if this is the critera you have for determing wether you are ready for democracy or not, you will never experience democracy, take a look at american politics, there is nothing more vicious than the eternal democrat-republican struggle, someone here compared us with Taiwan, havent you ever seen the fistfights and catfights in the Taiwanese Parliament? Politics is dirty, if you want to stay clean then stay away, if you want to induce change then start with a lousy tribal, religious or whatever democracy, at least there would be a venue for change, btw , I despise ALL religions, so i dont have any hidden agendas here.
See the beauty of democracy is that majority rules, so if the majority of your people have a desire, an aspiration then why are you resisting the chnage, on the other hand if you think that you are better than most of your people, or if the issue of loyalty is dropped, and if the status quo suits you best, then, I would understand your desire to keep this status quo, more power to you, but please spare us the hypocricy of talking about democracy, its not something that you aspire for. Or even better solve your problem, make sure that you are in a desirable democracy, isnt this what israel is doing with its arab population? See, democracy is a double edged sword, careful what you wish for.

]]> By: Mohanned http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51761 Mohanned Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:18:38 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51761 Mal: What I meant by that is that they put their national interests first, which will not be the case when the "majority as they claim" rules, you can comment on my blog and we can have a discussion over there. But the pattern that I see that there is always someone to blame for the failures, nobody seems to be courage enough to say that " We screwed up", once it is the regime, another time it is the "conspiracy theory", So please don't judge, look for the root causes of our current situation and the "racism" that is killing us and taking us no where, as long as we are fighting each other we will never achieve anything for both jordan or palastine, we need a strong jordan that is capable of standing up against the bullies of the region, why don't we put jordans interest first for some time..Palastine has enough political parties over there, why can't we look at poverty, educatoin, crimes, economy, those are more important for bulidng a strong jordan which will be great not only for palastine but for all the arabs. Again please don't judge me, and read what I write carefully. Thanks, and why you keep changing your screen name.. Mal:
What I meant by that is that they put their national interests first, which will not be the case when the “majority as they claim” rules, you can comment on my blog and we can have a discussion over there. But the pattern that I see that there is always someone to blame for the failures, nobody seems to be courage enough to say that ” We screwed up”, once it is the regime, another time it is the “conspiracy theory”, So please don’t judge, look for the root causes of our current situation and the “racism” that is killing us and taking us no where, as long as we are fighting each other we will never achieve anything for both jordan or palastine, we need a strong jordan that is capable of standing up against the bullies of the region, why don’t we put jordans interest first for some time..Palastine has enough political parties over there, why can’t we look at poverty, educatoin, crimes, economy, those are more important for bulidng a strong jordan which will be great not only for palastine but for all the arabs. Again please don’t judge me, and read what I write carefully.
Thanks, and why you keep changing your screen name..

]]> By: malgatt http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51757 malgatt Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:02:27 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/03/25/the-will-of-the-people/#comment-51757 "the US:they put the US national interest first(and israel of course." strange. our regime does that too. does it mean we are a democracy? dang! you are right, i keep looking at the trees but i missed the forest. “the US:they put the US national interest first(and israel of course.”

strange. our regime does that too. does it mean we are a democracy? dang! you are right, i keep looking at the trees but i missed the forest.

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