Comments on: Se7enTH http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/ A Jordanian Blog Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:23:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: CMAR II http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-60039 CMAR II Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:22:42 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-60039 Adel, How often are sons (when they have affairs, or get a girl pregnant, etc. etc. etc) murdered by their families for the cause of "honor"? I suppose these stories might only get major press coverage when a woman is murdered. Do you know any? Or is it only women who are responsible for maintaining a family's honor? It seems to me that men can drink, screw around, watch TV programs of women in unIslamic clothing. But as soon as their female family members do those things (or even non-family members), these men feel they have been personally shamed. I'm all for people acting morally, but those with the most power (that is, fathers and husbands) should be held accountable first. Adel,

How often are sons (when they have affairs, or get a girl pregnant, etc. etc. etc) murdered by their families for the cause of “honor”? I suppose these stories might only get major press coverage when a woman is murdered. Do you know any? Or is it only women who are responsible for maintaining a family’s honor?

It seems to me that men can drink, screw around, watch TV programs of women in unIslamic clothing. But as soon as their female family members do those things (or even non-family members), these men feel they have been personally shamed.

I’m all for people acting morally, but those with the most power (that is, fathers and husbands) should be held accountable first.

]]> By: Hala http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59906 Hala Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:45:13 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59906 Adel, Both the father and the daughter are to be blamed. However, people have to understand that laws exist for a reason. They cannot just take matters into their own hands and decide what to do and how to do, and apparently in this case, when to do it. People are creating a huge mess. Adel,

Both the father and the daughter are to be blamed. However, people have to understand that laws exist for a reason. They cannot just take matters into their own hands and decide what to do and how to do, and apparently in this case, when to do it. People are creating a huge mess.

]]> By: Maha http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59894 Maha Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:58:28 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59894 There is no question that there was zinna and hattek 3ard which are excuses for honor cleansing. The law was applied correctly as the father wasn't given a reduced sentence since the crime was not committed in a fit of fury. They did the surgery and the abortain and killed her 2 weeks later. If he had killed her when he found out, technically he walks in a few months, and it would have been the only correct (by law) case of honor cleansing and killing in a fit of fury. It is ALL wrong!! we have a problem with citizens taking matters and punishments into their own hands and being excused for it. Justice authorities have flawed laws, applying sharee3a laws is even more prone to abuse as in the case of the sudanese woman executed for adultry while he partner walks away alive. Everything needs to be restructured. There is no question that there was zinna and hattek 3ard which are excuses for honor cleansing. The law was applied correctly as the father wasn’t given a reduced sentence since the crime was not committed in a fit of fury. They did the surgery and the abortain and killed her 2 weeks later. If he had killed her when he found out, technically he walks in a few months, and it would have been the only correct (by law) case of honor cleansing and killing in a fit of fury.

It is ALL wrong!! we have a problem with citizens taking matters and punishments into their own hands and being excused for it. Justice authorities have flawed laws, applying sharee3a laws is even more prone to abuse as in the case of the sudanese woman executed for adultry while he partner walks away alive. Everything needs to be restructured.

]]> By: Adel http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59883 Adel Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:02:01 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59883 Personally, I can't blame the father! Personally, I can’t blame the father!

]]> By: Crazy News from Jordan at Sugar Cubes http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59870 Crazy News from Jordan at Sugar Cubes Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:04:20 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59870 [...] The victim became the seventh person reportedly murdered in a so-called honour crime in the country since the beginning of the year, according to judicial and medical sources. [Source] [...] […] The victim became the seventh person reportedly murdered in a so-called honour crime in the country since the beginning of the year, according to judicial and medical sources. [Source] […]

]]> By: Hala http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59760 Hala Wed, 11 Apr 2007 08:47:45 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59760 Celebrating? This is really outrageous! And I ask the same question, why would they do the surgey and then kill her? It all does not make sense to me. "I don’t know it is all mixed together, relegion is used as a tool by them but at the same time they don’t do what islam tells us to do!!" I agree with you Mohanned, they are trying to justify their actions using Islam. It is shameful! Celebrating? This is really outrageous!

And I ask the same question, why would they do the surgey and then kill her? It all does not make sense to me.

“I don’t know it is all mixed together, relegion is used as a tool by them but at the same time they don’t do what islam tells us to do!!”

I agree with you Mohanned, they are trying to justify their actions using Islam. It is shameful!

]]> By: Mohanned http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59572 Mohanned Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:42:29 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59572 I don't know, it is all complex, the society don't want to change this specific law, and in a poll I read somewhere that over 80% of women in jordan agree on men hitting their wives!!And hamzeh yes the pressure worked before but the regime can't afford to loose the support of the tribes which who is commiting this kind of crimes, I remember when I was back in jordan that there was some kind of a protest infront of the parliment to chnage this law and members of the royal family were there and the king sent a hidden message that he wants this law to be chnaged but the parliment refused, even the so called "muslim brotherhood" who speaks about islam knowing that this kind of killing is forbidden in islam and that the prophet himself and in the quran the Hadd of zena requires 4 witnesses who saw the actual intercourse where the male genitles actually was seen inside of the woman, which is impossible!! unless the people who did the zena came up and admitted doing so and even when that happened the prophet tried to push them back!!I don't know it is all mixed together, relegion is used as a tool by them but at the same time they don't do what islam tells us to do!! I don’t know, it is all complex, the society don’t want to change this specific law, and in a poll I read somewhere that over 80% of women in jordan agree on men hitting their wives!!And hamzeh yes the pressure worked before but the regime can’t afford to loose the support of the tribes which who is commiting this kind of crimes, I remember when I was back in jordan that there was some kind of a protest infront of the parliment to chnage this law and members of the royal family were there and the king sent a hidden message that he wants this law to be chnaged but the parliment refused, even the so called “muslim brotherhood” who speaks about islam knowing that this kind of killing is forbidden in islam and that the prophet himself and in the quran the Hadd of zena requires 4 witnesses who saw the actual intercourse where the male genitles actually was seen inside of the woman, which is impossible!! unless the people who did the zena came up and admitted doing so and even when that happened the prophet tried to push them back!!I don’t know it is all mixed together, relegion is used as a tool by them but at the same time they don’t do what islam tells us to do!!

]]> By: Stef http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59571 Stef Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:36:56 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59571 This kind of barbarism is spreading. It happens more and more in western Europe. Although it doesn't get much attention, as it might make people realise that multiculturalism also has a downside. Unfortunately our political elite still considers the myth of a multicultural utopia more important than the lives of some young immigrants. This kind of barbarism is spreading. It happens more and more in western Europe. Although it doesn’t get much attention, as it might make people realise that multiculturalism also has a downside. Unfortunately our political elite still considers the myth of a multicultural utopia more important than the lives of some young immigrants.

]]> By: Nas http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59570 Nas Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:36:05 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59570 hamzeh: i couldn't agree more hamzeh: i couldn’t agree more

]]> By: Hamzeh N. http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59567 Hamzeh N. Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:23:44 +0000 http://www.black-iris.com/2007/04/10/se7enth/#comment-59567 How about adding something on honor crimes to the cultural project? http://www.black-iris.com/?p=643 I think it's very important that those who learn about Jordan's culture also learn about the negative norms of it, and more importantly learn about the rising voices that speak against these negative norms. This way maybe we'll end up with some external pressure on our government to abolish the laws regarding honor crimes. Coz so far, I think external pressure on Jordan has been one of the most successful (if not the most successful) instruments in changing laws and policies in our country. How about adding something on honor crimes to the cultural project?

http://www.black-iris.com/?p=643

I think it’s very important that those who learn about Jordan’s culture also learn about the negative norms of it, and more importantly learn about the rising voices that speak against these negative norms. This way maybe we’ll end up with some external pressure on our government to abolish the laws regarding honor crimes.

Coz so far, I think external pressure on Jordan has been one of the most successful (if not the most successful) instruments in changing laws and policies in our country.

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