BUT let me use a quote from one of jubran khalil jubran’s writings about the ottoman ruling (this’s not the exact words btw): I don’t fight the sick body I just despise the sickness. This is it, this’s what we should be concentrating on: getting to know the real Islamic basis: saying no to whoever tries to limit our great religion to a set of rules on what to wear, eat, or drink. But then again, we should also stand solid against people who think Islam fits in only mosques! No, this should never be the case! Prophet Moh’d came as teacher and a state leader as well! Now if I am to adopt secularism then I shall throw piles and piles of quran and hadith!

Yes, education is very important, but I don’t think it should be the starting point! I believe we can set off by establishing a solid ethical background, and here’s where the real discussion starts and my mouth (or hands) runs out of words.

as for islamic governance…poor people will vote for whoever benefits them…right now the brotherhood is the most beneficial and most heavily funded.

so do not confuse the failure of arab governments with the success of a religious party…or more specifically the success of religion

In most Arab countries when people have had a choice they have voted for Islamic governance - what do they know that you dont? What have secular governmants brought to the Muslim world?

Why this word? Education, I guess!

moi: i did not say islam was a source of the problem nor the mentality that advocates it as a solution to everything. moreover there are a thousand and one sources to the problems we’re facing, not just governments.

my post is saying that education is merely the better option in this day and age.

drima: i absolutely agree

Problem is, what kind of education. Secular education, religious or a combination?

I’d love to see education that encourages creative and critical thinking, not “education” meant to programme us a robots.

oh but you did point fingers Nas; most of your rant is blaming the “Islam is the solution” mentality and those who advocate it. I agree that we can get stuck on blaming certain parties, but like alurduni said, you must find the root cause(s) to be able to address the problem with a comprehensive solution.

i agree with urduni that arab governments are to blame more than anyone for our predicament .. and nas just like you said you are uninspired by the sheikhs you see on tv (a sentiment i share btw) .. i would like to add that i find arab leaders speeches and words just as mundane and hollow .. i think arab summits are a case in point.

and i agree with you nas .. education is key if we wish to rise as arabs .. but i don’t think it alone is enough .. i would also add freedom to the equation .. freedom from occupation .. and freedom from oppression i.e. political freedom, freedom of press, of speech, human rights, etc.

p.s. the first words of the quran were iqra2 .. read .. there a lot of ahadeeth that encourage seeking education .. so your solution wasn’t that original really .. it was actually islam’s solution :p

moreover, the reason i didnt write several paragraphs bashing the arab government for everything is because (a) i didnt have the time, (b) there are plenty people such as yourselves who spend a much greater amount of time on that and (c) i’m more concerned with solution than pointing fingers…the latter is something we’ve been doing for much too long and to no avail.

hence the title of this post

No, secularism is a political view, not a religious one. It is a view which believes in the separation of church/mosque and state. That’s the most basic explanation.

So, no, there’s no conflict between secularism and islam. A secular Muslim is not a lapsed believer, or a lazy, or non-practising person. Just someone who doesn’t think religion and state should be linked.

I think the key word is being adaptive and responsive to change. One of the key things that came with the introduction of Islam is the challenging of all the norms and methods of the society back then.
That change brought a decisive advantage to the early Muslim “country” . There were more efficiencies in terms of economic, educational, and political system when compared to other systems of the time. People that joined Islam were pioneers at the time in that they challenged the status quo and thought outside the box.

What brought the Islamic empire down among other empires is a stagnation and non-responsiveness to a changing world. People stopped questioning; they did what they were told. This led to other civilizations getting ahead. It does not matter whether you are at the top now, it matters whether you are advancing faster than everyone else, if not, someone is going to overtake your civilization and you are going to be behind sooner or later.

It is time that we move away from slogans, from pre-packaged solutions, from copying others, or even attempting to copy the past. Each solution is based on a set of conditions and assumptions that do not necessarily hold at our current time and situation. Most importantly, no group should be marginalized as they all should contribute fully to society and diversity should be encouraged not repressed, it is through diversity that our ideas are challenged.

As you said, we should invest in education, which means investing in a generation of people who will challenge the status quo and bring forward change. Yes, many will resist the change as is always the case, but that’s the point: without others to question and provide opposing our thinking we will never get it right.

Just my two cents.

Moreover, an education is meant to inspire, not a recitation of facts (if that), but something much more.

Amen, brother. I despise a system designed around rote memorization, rather than critical thinking. It hinders society in so many ways.

What I do know is that imposing a functioning religion in a dysfunctional environment will yield dysfunctional results and we see that today in many instances.

I agree and disagree with the above statement at the same time. The word “impose” makes me uncomfortable, of course, so in that I agree. However, I have seen instances where religion accepted by a dysfunctional environment can yield favorable results. Then again, my definition of religion most likely differs from yours.

We should talk more about this the next time you are in town.

sasa :now my understand of the term secular muslim, is a non practicing muslim. maybe you were looking for private religion ? or is it believing muslim instead of a practicing one ?

As for education, yeah….. do you really think the other 95% of the populations think that way ?
I think its more of a “2illi binzal min hal sama btistla2a 2il 2ard” mentality, change that first then you can tackle education.
So i guess i would agree on instilling hope and aspiration before education which is kinda what u said
Enjoy

Islam is the soloution is what created al-qaeda, islam became political, it serves as a recruiting tool by reminding the youth with our glourious past which was driven by “islam”, the youth think and say: “we used to rule the world when we were “true muslims” and look at us now, we are worthless and humilated”

“On the contrary, we have abandoned knowledge in pursuit of god.”

Couldn’t agree more, people forget that the first verse in the quran was about education and learning, god told mohammed PBUH “read”, I think that is enough of a sign for us, but I think we are talking to deaf people..But still there is hope..
God bless..

I am a practising Muslim, and I define myself as secular. Very few people understand this, but it doesn’t mean atheist, as many misunderstand. It just means that my religion is between me and my god. I don’t wear it on my sleeve, I don’t tell others how to act, and I don’t run around telling everyone I’m a Muslim.

That certainly doesn’t mean I’m a Muslim in hiding. If anyone asks, I will explain my beliefs, I don’t hide them, I’m not evasive, and I certainly won’t lie.

And I wholeheartedly agree with you, I don’t believe it is a tool for social change. Education is our biggest problem. And there is absoultely no conflict there with Islam. On the contrary, we have abandoned knowledge in pursuit of god.

Sasa.