Honestly, I’m in favor of banning smoking in public places. There are certain places with Argileh in Amman that I do not go to, because I cannot stand the smoke, and I’ve stopped going to some places because I could hardly see my hand because of the smoke. I think restaurants should not allow smoking; and if people want to smoke, they can go outside. If bars want to keep their open smoking policies, then at least force them to install strong heavy-duty ventilation system. Again, I am a smoker, and I feel this way. So yes, I do understand where the non-smokers are coming from.

I do understand that people are free to do whatever they want. But c’mon guys, you cannot claim that smoking is not harmful to you, your friends and family. Seriously, had my parents and friends did never smoked, I very much doubt that I would’ve ever tried.

In the real world, yes there is. Responsible freedom means you are free as long as you don’t hinder other people’s freedom. As A expressed, second hand smoke does that. I won’t even bother argung on whether it is harmful because its patently obvious. i don’t need a study to tell me this. Its enough to get in a cab with windows closed in mid winter, and start coughing phlegm 30 seconds later because the driver decided to poison himself.

Yes it may be unreasonable to ban tobbacco all together, but banning it in public spaces, particularily closed spaces, public transportation, restaurants etc… is very reasonable.

Go to wikipedia to find a summary of all the research on second hand smoking. Find out who “disputes” this research — big surprise — it is the tobacco companies.

Do you really need a study to tell you that choking and feeling sick after being exposed to second hand smoke is from the smoke itself — and that it is a danger to your long-term health?

When I get in the taxi, it is up to the driver to stop smoking — he is not supposed to be smoking in the first place.

When I go to the hospital, I would like reasonable assurance that the doctors and the patients and the people in the waiting room will not be smoking while I or the relative I have come to see is lying in bed ill. That is just plain rude, selfish, and ignorant.

Don’t even get me started about people smoking around their pregnant wives and children.

Remember…Denial ain’t a river in Egypt.

I may be one of the first to comment on this smoke issue (see above) and actually talk about how some of us are not yet accustomed to the freedom of choice. whether from a smoker or non-smoker point of view.

u said something very nice and quite powerful, and I quote: “there is no such thing as responsible freedom, its either freedom or restriction… so as long as there is an alternative choice for you to choose from then you have no right to impede on mine”. I couldn’t say it any better.

I very much like your rebellious nature. we both share this personality trait!

unlike adults who start smoking, the kids aren’t responsible for their actions.

When I was in Canada, I remember once being approached by some teenagers asking me to buy them a pack. This is because any merchant knows how seriously the law will deal with them if they don’t ask for ID when someone seemingly underage tries to buy a smoke.

Bambam, not really, I’d be happy if alcohol was banned as well

kids develop breathing problems due to their sensitivity to a lot of things and i think its only sensible to just protect them from all of those as much as possible (and unlike the rest i was such a kid so don’t give me those patronizing tales)

as for the cab drivers, if you are truelly bothered and can’t live with it then get out of the cab for god’s sake !

lastly, surprisingly i do agree with you on one thing
“I think smoking a cigarette is as harmful if not worse than smoking Marijuana.”
yup you are right cigarettes are a lot more harmful than marijuana, and so is alcohol which is more harmful than both of them. So there goes your theory of how to ban stuff

7aki 7aki not at all cigarette never clouds my judgment, and no unlike denying global warming which has scientific bases to it proofing second hand smoking is harmful has a very shaky ground to walk on, and no am not quoting some anon tobacco company mole. I am quoting the WHO, which i believe is a very credible source.
the way i see it, is that i don’t others to protect me, or those who don’t mind being around smoking. in the case of jordan it is even compounded when you see that the majority is that of smokers so it is highly impractical never mind illogical to drag the majority of the patrons outside the restaurant because of a few that feel that it smells bad.

as for my 1% it concerns kids, so i don’t smoke around kids no matter what and am a 100% with baning it in certain places but come on 7aki now who is at blame here a person who is smoking at a coffee shop or the one who is bringing his kids to it ? remember we are talking about specific venues that cater to adults, where the atmosphere is that of a smoking atmosphere(coffee shop, bar) & where the owner allows people to smoke in his establishment. if you generalize its not my fault since i can’t make it clearer than that.

there is no such thing as responsible freedom, its either freedom or restriction… so as long as there is an alternative choice for you to choose from then you have no right to impede on mine so thats why i am always against the government acting as a nanny to it populli, and i equally despise those overzealous constituents who try to impede on what i see as my right !

and what if we tackle narcotics by saying something along the lines of: “he’s a drug addict, a worthless junkie, let him drug himself to death!“.

or how about we tackle the peace process in the Middle East by saying something along the lines of: “Iraq and Palestine are too controversial and problematic, let’s blow ‘em up and get it over with“.

are they all “too dumb to live“?

the whole “he’s smoking and killing himself so the hell with him” is all backward crap, Nas.

Hani: You can’t say that all smokers are addicts, and I will give you myself as an example, I smoke, but I am not an addict, I can quit anytime and go back to smoke anytime, as a matter of fact I haven’t smoked since ramadan began.

Next point: I am with banning smoking in public, I don’t smoke at my appartment, not because of me, because of my wife and kid.

The point is, you can’t make choices for people, people are supposed to make their own choices. And my main argument is that economically smokers are benifiting the society more than they harm it by the extra taxes that they are forced to pay. Cars should be taxed more for the pollution that they cause.

It is a matter of relativity, you can’t pick and choose, whats bad is bad.

Not so Final thought: “be all about the level of harm done, not about the social acceptance.”

If so, then MANY things should be banned.
Ethics create laws, and laws are created by humans, humans are not GOD to decide what is right or wrong. There are many things that harm more than marijuana and heroine but they are not banned. Did you ask yourself how many lives we loose to road accidents and how much does it cost? Did we ask ourselves the toll eating mansaf has on our society? I am not being sarcastic, smoking is good for the society overall, because it is the cow that makes money for the government.

And regarding weed and heroince, do you actually believe that they can’t contorl it? It is a big business my friend. For example heroince killed more americans than osama bin laden, but who are they after now?

Peace out.

The big oil companies who benefit from poisoning the environment are like the cigarette companies who say second hand smoke does not cause problems for non smokers.

They pay people who don’t work for them to plant these ridiculous ideas that defy logic in peoples heads

Why would a lot of governments post adds everywhere saying second hand smoke is bad? What would they gain by doing that other than lessening the health problems for the people? In Canada you can’t light up in any enclosed area that is public including bars ,restaurants ,shops ANYWHWERE you have to be 9 meters away from a building to smoke . And to be honest this is heaven for me and for my daughter, I don’t have to worry about taking her anywhere and I can breath deep and be happy. I do think it in-conveniences smokers because they have to step outside to smoke but it greatly benefits everybody else, like the waiters and the restaurant owners who don’t want to be poisoned and still want to earn a living.

You should practice freedom responsibly.

A question, if you have an infant would you smoke around them? Don’t you even have a 1% doubt that second hand smoke is bad?

It seems that the cigarette smoke clouded your judgment .

Mohannad: they actually banned saturated fat from resturants in the USA, that’s going overboard if you ask me but i guess it’s not that bad.

Deciding whether something should be a controlled substance should be all about the level of harm done, not about the social acceptance. I think smoking a cigarette is as harmful if not worse than smoking Marijuana. The fact that its socially acceptable make it more of a health risk.

A public smoking ban is meant to protect the general public from depending on the sensitivity and good manners of smokers to act sensibly. They’re addicts, how can we expect them to have these things ?

And mansaf, burgers, falafel, etc…

So why don’t we ban them all, or lets tax the sh@@ out those products because they hurt people, and maybe if we see “fat” people in the street we jail them because they have higher chance of being sick. And it was also proven that when you see people eat you become more vulnrable to eacting more..

It is all about choice, they choose to smoke, they choose to pay extra tax to smoke, so no one has any right to decide what is better for people. And while we are at it, I think that smoke coming out of your cars is more harmful than cigarrettes, so I also suggest that we tax all cars not using ethanol as their fuel.

Regarding smokers respecting none-smokers rights not to be subjected to 2nd hand smoke, they just don’t.

I take a taxi every day, 80% of the drivers smoke, indeed many smoke with a no-smoking sign present (probably placed by the car owner). You can imagine the driver’s reaction when you ask him to stop.

I know parents who smoke in front of their infants, and even one who continued smoking after his infant developed a breathing disorder, speant a week in the hospital, and very nearly died from 2nd hand smoke.

Regarding Nas preaching, please preach away. Anyone willing to poison themselves in the name of social acceptance and peer pressure clearly requires some of that.

Regarding Mohammad specifying smokers as patients, this may be true subsequent to the addiction, but initially they only have themselves to blame. Particularily on trying that first cigarette, if you have the slightest appreciation of your self-worth, you would immediately drop it and regret being stupid enough to listen to your friends and try it in the first place.

That is not what we are talking, just to lay it out we are talking about:
1 = whether second hand smoking is really as harmful to you as you are taught to believe, and if so what is the evidence to back that up ?

2 - is it fine for smokers to be described the way NAS described them!
“maybe they’re just too dumb to live.”

so please keep up, we are counting on you (i wonder if this will be closed soon )

just for the record, at least personally, i don’t have a problem quiting but the fact of the mater is i don’t want to quit for several reason of my own. we are not lacking in character.
I certainly don’t think any should be banned the idea that if something is available then people will not be able to control themselves is a silly idea to me.who ever is not able to be moderate about they way he carries himself through life will wither away and it would be their path that they choose for themselves.

Who puts you on pushing others into your own path if they don’t want to follow ?

so why bother, really?

That aside, having personal experience in it doesn’t add much credibility to the argument since the majority of us have some personal experience with such a case. now the thing is if you notice when hareega commented he focused on 2 things
public places ban — which am a 110% for
personal health woes that effect the smoker

he didn’t even touch on second hand smoking, he didn’t touch on smoking in coffee shops he just mentioned the things that matter the most, what gets me heated is when ppl like you get overzealous to the extent that they feel that they know whats best for the people and get us to the extent new york got to, where i wont be even allowed to smoke in my own apartment or at my favorite coffee shop where the owner doesn’t mind ppl smoking in doors.

btw those two places i mentioned are just what came to mind, there are more if you look for them but i guess it takes a bit more effort …
see the funny thing is that i did give you what i was objecting about referring to statistics and studies to elevate this to a healthy debate level, but instead you choose to totally disregard it all and conclude with a cheesy paragraph so don’t blame me if i see some irony in that.

and just for cheesiness sake:
“not everything you can’t comprehend is false, it just means you are just not ready for it yet”
cheers mate & enjoy !

mohanned: i was giving an example of the wholes in this boat called the smoking society. suffice to say, my concern is more with the social costs than the economic ones.