As bizare as the show is, BIG LOVE has definitely caught my attention as I think the directors are asking some interesting questions about the various angles from which polygamy can be seen.

The rich affluant guy won’t get a second wife if it’s about sex..he can afford a prostitute.
The poor guy will manipulate a poor woman who is a burden on her poor father and marries for “sotra” and starts a breeding competition with the other wife to become more favorable.

You dont want me to get into Utah and Texas style compund polygomy ….i dont have a single nice thing to say about those holy fuck farms

I just wanted to add to your post….that “division” that you were referring to with regards to “certain Islamic practices” is something that can be applied to other factors like hijab…to me that was one of the more obvious ones when I was in Jordan. Seriously, there were many instances when I felt more confident and generally comfortable as a mit7ajba in the US than in Jordan because of that division you’re suggeting.

Now with regards to polygamy, to me rulings in Islam must be put in their context to be properly understood. Considering the environment of Arabia (and in much of the rest of the world as well) at the time of the revelation, the rules of polygamy in Islam were actually a LIMIT on polygamy! So it’s interesting that today the practice of polygamy is seen as an “Islamic practice”……..this is consequence of the fact that Islam is the least evolved of the major established religions of the world.

On a second note, the following was noted in a previous post:

Meanwhile women do not have any sexual desires at all. Her sex life should end with the death of her husband.

NOT TRUE! NOT TRUE! NOT TRUE! Women do have sexual desires and needs they are just different than those of men. It would sadden me to think I would never have sex again.

I disagree with Um Omar. I think it is very dangerous when we can not differentiate between God’s word as divine, and human interpretation of it as fallible. And I can not see the logic in linking whether women cover themselves or not with the ‘need’ for polygamy!! Negotiation and renegotiation have always been part of Islam’s legacy, taking that away would be like robbing Islam of its golden age. Islam was once synonymous with civilization; and civilization thrives on thought.

It is not the place of the Muslim to question God’s wisdom. Whether we follow the practice or not, it is not our place to criticize the laws of Islam.

Unfortunately, in our ‘Muslim’ society, polygyny is misused and has gotten a bad reputation. There is still a place for it when practiced under Islamic guidelines. There still are men who fear Allah and are trying to provide for women who need protection.

Really, before we start to criticize polygyny, we need to correct other problems in our society which lead to adultry and other sins. Muslims need to follow the basics of Islamic manners, namely men need to lower their gazes and women need to cover themselves properly. This would help cut down the ‘need’ for multiple marriages in this society.

If a man has had two wives, say with six children all tolled, and both women are
homeless or living with family who cannot provide an environment for the family,
the pressure toward living together will impel women toward the practice.

Women can only have state assistance for 5 years in my state and the level of
chronic illness is very high–so there is a great deal of despair. Maybe if
the US Government had not brought Polygamy so much under the spot light
many who seem to be considering this now would never have thought of it.
That cat is out of the bag.

Polygamy is very easily to conceal and it will become worse as more families have
to share housing. Is the new nieghbor a biological sister with a nephew and niece,
or are these children the children of the husband who can’t be living on the
streets with a mother with aides.

It may not come for some years, but I think Polygamy, so persecuted by the
churches, is on the comeback. The State and Churches aren’t going to want to
support a growing indigenous population.

I there were strong words in any Holy Book condemning the practise it might be
easier to make condemnitory laws or rhetoric stick. The Romans introduced
the practise to the 2nd Century Christian Church. For most cultures where it
was practiced it was stamped out by the brutal killing of the family entirely,
in the survivors it was forced out of prace ie. via cultural Genocide, from
Church and State, after the 1990 US Census–this involved the theft and
forced change of culture, language and tradition, leaving anger and bitterness
in its place, as we have seen with the FLDS recently in Texas.

I believe the trauma inflicted on Mothers and children alike will deepen religious
convictions and increase the number practising the principle in the next
generation. Traditional Fundamentalist Mormon people do not have sex after
the birth of a child until it is weaned at about three, so in Mormon
Cultural practise, sex could hardly be a strong motivator.

Kathleen

Facts:
1- Polygamy was practiced almost every where in old times.
2- It got banned with spread of Christianity.
3- It is not acceptable generally in most societies today.
4- polygamy is more practiced in less urban areas (even in old ages).

Possible Reasons:

1- Physical Strength
Maybe the rough life of old times put the women at a physical disadvantage, deeming them ‘second class’ beings. Thus, a man could have multiple wives. In today’s ‘modern civilization’, physical strength does not provide a real advantage. This is why we don’t have polygamy today.

However, as I’m reading “The Interesting Narrative” now, in Africa circa 1755 women were strong and fought in battles, yet were still considered 2nd class and had polygamy. But is “fighting in battles” good enough to say that “women were just as strong”.

2- Scarcity of Men
The male:female ratio was low in old times. Given old days low sanitary conditions, mortality for male newborns was higher. And due to wars, men tended to die in larger percentages. Thus, polygamy was a necessity due to circumstances. In modern day, the ratio is closer 1:1 (and higher in certain single-child societies). This is why polygamy is not needed any more.

3- Dominance of Men
Men dominated women in old times. Polygamy was man’s choice of pleasure. With women rights and equality, polygamy disappeared.

4- Sexual Need
Some men seem to have a higher sexual dive than women. Thus, these men needed multiple wives to “keep them busy”. This need is suppressed in today’s society due to women-rights-and-equality. Thus, we have this underground cult of “men always wanting to have sex” and “wives deciding when”.

5- A Matter of Taste
Maybe polygamy was just a fad – something that was acceptable, but then due to Christianity and European Global Civilization, got out of favor. Maybe if we wait for another 300 years it’ll come back (or marriage as a whole will get abolished ).

I personally do not think it’s #5. I believe that any dominant human behavior has very practical origin.
I think the real reason is a combination of 1-4. This requires a lot more investigation – and studying habits of different societies. I remember my islamic studies teacher in high school explaining reason #4. that was funny, but then, i think it’s partially true.

what do you think?

that’s like saying I prefer a plane crash that kills 300 people over one that kills 400 people

Both are horrible.
Our society somehow allows a man to express his sexual desires and the fact that he continuously needs to have sex, even if his wife can’t have sex for a few months due to illness they’ll allow him to get married again because he really really wants to have sex, and being a wild animal he can’t suppress his exuality like that and so he needs to get married.

Meanwhile women do not have any sexual desires at all. Her sex life should end with the death of her husband.

Getting a second wife will break a family, it will create a wound that is very difficult to heal. Some families get over it, but most families cannot it. The dramatization that Arabic movies show is real. Women become miserable creatures when their husband gets a second wife.

Apparently, knowing about honor and Islam and all that, the wife consciously sees her husband go meet this guy and come back to her and wants to do nothing about it because;

1- A bisexual husband “destroys her reputation and both family honors”

2- She needs his support, house, kids etc.

3- She loves him and “can’t control what he likes”

How’s THAT for polygamy!

Nas should start on thread on this one. Oh lord the things that will be said. lol

I love your concept of “more 7aram”. I’m a strong believer in a spectrum of wrong with shades of gray between black and white. Kudos.

@ Nada

“I prefer polygamy to adultery”

I support the idea that if polygamy is being arranged so the man can have a new sex partner he will soon be bored of, adultery is better. I would also personally qualify such a man based on his income and ability to provide the exact same living standards for his multiple partners.

Like MD, I think it is “more 7aram” for a man to use his second wife for occasional sex than actually meeting someone strictly for one-time sex when it’s declared and she knows that they are meeting for that and that’s it.

The State of Utah is, by far, the most Mormon state in America. For them to be let into America as a state they had to outlaw polygamy.

I have studied Mormonism and have read about 1/3 of the Mormon Bible. As far as I know you 100% correct about them and their place in American history.

One of the common jokes on Big Love is the husband’s constant need for Viagra.

Interestingly, I think the trend you mentioned (education -> urbanization -> “civilization”) applies to the Mormon Church in the US as well. Originally it was a well accepted practice within the bounds of the entire Mormon Church. However, with the increasing interaction of Mormons with others, it fell more and more out of favor. Finally, the US government placed pressure on the church to outlaw the practice (from what I understand). Currently, the mainstream Mormon Church does not condone polygamy. Typically it is seen only in rural, break-offs from the Mormon Church.

Anyway, as for polygamy and adultery, I believe that if any man ever considered a second marriage, it is because of “Sex”, and I might be wrong here; however, if a man would do this behind his wife, it is even more difficult for a woman, it is not easy in both cases, but I am just saying if we want to think in the concept of 7alal and 7aram , marriage would be slightly a better option, and it does not mean I agree with that.

You are right, being married for sex is not a human behavior to start with and that’s why I said if polygamy is decreasing, it is because people are getting more aware of the fact that having multiple wives is just inhumane at all, and this is exactly why I said that marriage is more than having someone to have sex with, it is a responsible action, that requires a lot from the partners; and that explains why many marriages are failing…people are just getting married for the wrong reasons, it seems…

I think in the Islamic thought nowadays, and even the Christian one; polygamy as a sole concept is a myth both in spirit and practice. In this day and age, where there’s a lot more going on, I think it is not just financially hard, but emotionally and mentally draining as well, and I can’t see it happening at all.

Besides, life has gotten too complicated, for one to consider marriage as the only possible way of making relationships between people; men and women in particular. The advance of the world makes it as obsolete as anything to consider that any religion or any form of thought can govern how people should live their lives any more. Personal prefrences are liberating the world madly, and for us to argue what’s right and what’s wrong is just ink, paper and blogs!

Why ? because one is thought to be religiously allowed and the other not?
firstly i hate to see that people think it is allowed religiously when none of them (those who get another wife) match the condition mentioned in Quran. which is having an orphan to take care of and being afraid to steal his/her money that he is responsible for. (who on earth would admit he is afraid to steal the money of an orphan he takes care of). sadly some Muslims read the second part of the verse (two three and four), and leave the first part that contains the condition…

Well if it is about sex then i think that adultery is way much better than polygamy, because the reason is clear, no need to mix targets, this just makes us a more hypocritical community than we are now. so if a man is not satisfied with his woman, he can simply drive a red-light street and do what he likes, but get another woman as a wife just for sex is too sad and just an uglification for the meaning of marriage, which you yourself have wrote its meaning in a very nice way.
i think it is more “7aram” to get a wife just for sex, and hurt another wife (the first) than to make adultery…think of it, polygamy is an animal action, not for humans.
by the way the prophet was ordered by God, for the some reasons mentioned in Quran, so he is not the normal case, he is the very special one.

Of course, it is an open-ended topic; anyway, talking about Polygamy can be viewed from different angles and according to the person’s involvement in the topic.
Being a woman who has never been in such a situation, I will just say what I think….

It is somehow complicated, when polygamy takes place, this means that there is a man and woman’s approval to this state at least we are talking about the second woman, or maybe third or fourth woman’ approval to this marriage without taking into consideration the opinion of the first woman, because logically, there is no woman on earth who would love to share her man with other women even if done according to religious doctrine.

It has always been the case; however, women did not have the guts to spell it out and express their dissatisfaction since she was afraid to lose her privileges of being a wife to this man; thus, she prefers her husband to marry a woman and keep her in his house to be divorced and go back to her father’s house. This has been the case in the past for most of the polygamy cases; however, this does not mean that it does not exist anymore now, it does, but I like to think that it exists in fewer cases.

Now as a woman, I would hate to be in a situation where my man, if I got married, remarry another woman, or I hate to be this second woman, simply, because in nature human being hates to be the second choice, or having someone else to be preferred over them. Why I am saying so, because I am very definite that the other woman will be chosen simply because she is younger, more beautiful and attractive, while the first woman is no longer appealing. I might be wrong, but I cannot think of a situation where a man will marry another woman unless he is looking for a better one to satisfy his needs.

That being said, I prefer polygamy to adultery, if marrying someone else would satisfy the man’s sexual needs ; it is much better than committing adultery simply because , from a religious point of view, adultery is “7aram” while marriage will keep the man on the right track; though in both cases, a woman will be hurt and feel underestimated. I am not going to get into this here.

On the other hand, some women are really bad-natured that they drive their men to take this step …..

Now, some might argue that having more than one wife is not simply due to the man’s desire to satisfy his needs, he is doing this out of duty of “Sutrah” I mean some well-off men believe if he has enough money, why not, he can marry four women and has as many children as he wants out of his belief that he will be helping these woman out from being left unmarried “Spinster” as people call them, and this is actually the reason for many women to accept being the second wife, simply because she does not want to end up alone named “Spinster” by the society; but at the end of the day it all depends on the woman’s personality and mentality; no marriage will take place unless the woman wants to, unless in some cases where fathers, mothers and even brothers force a woman to marry a married man just to get rid of her….however, it is not the case I am talking about, I am talking about a woman who can make her own decision, and she chooses to accept such a marriage…

The fact is polygamy is looked down at…well…for women I think it is clear why, like I said before that no woman on earth would love to share her man’s love with someone else, if we considered that “Love” still exists between the two. As for men, simply I do believe that there is no man who got married once would love to try it again 

Come on, marriage is not an easy thing, when a man and a woman consider marriage, they should take into consideration that they are establishing the basis of a new generation, they should be vey responsible to bring to this world better people, it is all about “Responsibility” and believe me it is not an easy thing, it is not that fun to be married to one; how about more!!! I wonder how a man can manage between two, three or four, he must be a Superman…what I am trying to say that we don’t just get married because we want someone to cook for us, or clean the house for us, or bring us gifts or have sex with, it is more than that, maybe I am being too idealistic, but it is my belief that both partners should be so mature to be able to keep their marriage go, it is something you work on everyday to make it sustain or make it better, so maybe if the number of people rejecting polygamy is increasing, just because they are more aware of what marriage is, it is not something you have to do, it is something you want to do, you like to do…thus, I believe it is not that people are looking down at Islamic doctrines, though it might be somehow true, but I guess young generation is hopefully getting more mature , again I might be too idealistic, but I have met many young people who really impress me with their personalities and mentalities. I don’t believe that these are western ideas, to the contrary, Islam emphasizes the importance of marriage in raising a better generation, and I don’t think there will be a healthy family if there is one man and many women, the equation won’t work; besides it is so clear in Quran that man has to be fair among his women, and I don’t even think this is easy, it is even a bigger burden on his shoulder. In addition, we have to take into consideration the fact that women will turn his life hell due to the jealousy and hatred to each other; as we all know a woman biggest enemy is another woman; so imagine how healthy the family will be…

I am not against Polygamy, like I said before having a legal wife is better than having a mistress, somehow, it gives the second woman more value, but the nature of our life and the way women are being raised up these days to be independent, intellectual , rational, make it even more difficult for women to accept this reality.

If I ever would be in such a situation, I would rather leave and be divorced rather being one of “HIS” women, for me it is demeaning though I know it is legal and “7alal”.